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    Same-sex divorce options explored by Harper government

    The Harper government is considering how to make divorce possible for same-sex couples who had to come to Canada to get married.

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to answer questions about the issue after speaking at a shipbuilding yard in North Vancouver after 3:15 p.m. PT.

    Thousands of gays and lesbians who could not marry in the country where they live have travelled to Canada seeking a legal marriage. But Canada's divorce laws don't allow people who haven't lived in Canada for at least a year to end their marriage.

    In a statement to CBC News, Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said he would be "looking at options to clarify the law so that marriages performed in Canada can be undone in Canada."

    Earlier Thursday, Harper insisted his government doesn't want to reopen the debate over same-sex marriage, despite newly-revealed legal arguments from a federal lawyer that a same-sex marriage performed in Canada is not valid if it isn't recognized as legal in the place where the couple lives.

    "When we first came to office we had a vote on this issue. We have no intention of further reopening or opening this issue," Harper said at a shipbuilding announcement in Halifax, adding that he did not know the details of the government's submission in this case.

    The renewed attention was sparked by the case of an unidentified lesbian couple who married in Canada in 2005 but split up in 2009. The partners are living in Florida and the United Kingdom. Both women want a divorce, but cannot get one where they now live because the state of Florida does not recognize their marriage, and although the U.K. grants civil partnerships to same-sex couples, it does not recognize the Canadian marriage.

    The couple went to court last June seeking a Canadian divorce, despite the federal Divorce Act's one-year residency requirement, which they do not meet. Their submission argues the rules are discriminatory, and the couple is seeking $30,000 in damages for negligent misrepresentation by the province of Ontario if their marriage is found to be invalid.

    But in addition to the residency requirement, a submission from a federal government lawyer in response to the couple's case cites another reason for refusing to grant the divorce — that they are not legally married.

    Documents released Thursday show the government arguing that "in order for a marriage to be legally valid under Canadian law, the parties to the marriage must satisfy both the requirements of the place where the marriage is celebrated... and the requirements of the law of domicile of the couple with regard to their legal capacity to marry one another."

    Canada's marriage laws do not have a residency requirement. But federal divorce laws do.

    Same-sex couples who travel to Canada to marry because the jurisdiction in which they live does not marry gays or lesbians run the risk of not having the legal means to divorce if the relationship sours.

    The couple's submission to the court argues that this is an "unintentional gap" not contemplated by legislation that should be rectified by the courts.

    The couple's lawyer, Martha McCarthy, told Toronto host Matt Galloway on CBC Radio's Metro Morning that the government lawyer's argument in this case came as a shock.

    "[I was] very surprised... Fell off my chair surprised," said McCarthy, a prominent Toronto lawyer with a long history of involvement in same-sex marriage cases.

    Although McCarthy does not think the same-sex marriage issue is alive as a political issue again, she does think the position taken by the government lawyer in this divorce case is a concern, suggesting that the government's attempt to differentiate between residents and non-residents in recognizing the validity of a marriage may be a case of the government doing what is "politically expedient."

    "I hope [the federal government lawyer's] position is not succesful. If it is it will be a significant embarassment to us all," McCarthy said. "Embarassment...to us as a nation, who have been a leader in equality rights for gays and lesbians since this issue became an international one."

    Harper declined to comment on the details of the government lawyer's arguments in this particular couple's case, suggesting he needed to be briefed on the specifics.

    "I am unaware of the details. This I gather is a case before the courts where Canadian lawyers have taken particular positions based on the law. But I will be asking officials to provide me with more details," Harper said.

    A senior government source told the CBC Thursday that the prime minister's office was unaware of the submission until it came to light in a media report.

    NDP MP Olivia Chow said the government was sending confusing signals about whether it really supports gay marriage.

    "I think that Mr. Harper is hiding behind the law and using a back-door way to say to these loving couples 'sorry, we no longer recognize your marriage' and that is hugely embarrassing and makes Canada a laughing stock in the world," Chow told reporters.

    Heading into their caucus meeting on Thursday morning, some Liberals, whose party was in power when same-sex marriage became legal in Canada in 2005, were accusing the Harper government of quietly using a court proceeding to erode equality rights.

    "This is what we have been worried about with the Conservative majority for a long time, we're going to see the erosion of gains we've seen in this country," said Quebec Liberal MP Justin Trudeau, noting that an Ontario Conservative MP, Stephen Woodworth, has also been trying to bring abortion rights onto the public agenda lately.

    Interim Liberal leader Bob Rae said that "it seems passing strange to me now that this would be the new position of the government of Canada."

    Rae also didn't fully accept Harper's explanation that he wasn't aware of what a government lawyer had written in this case. "I would be surprised if the PMO was unaware of it, but I have to take the prime minister at his word when he says what he says."

    Last August, the federal government also gave notice it will intervene in a divorce case concerning a gay couple who now live in Toronto.

    The couple, which includes a Canadian citizen, have a civil partnership registered in the United Kingdom, but are seeking a divorce in Canada. In its intervention, the federal government is arguing that the partnership is not equivalent to a Canadian marriage, and therefore the couple are not recognized as spouses in Canada and not eligible under the Divorce Act.

    In both cases, the relationships between Canadian marriage and divorce laws and federal jurisdictions are in question.

    Gay and lesbian rights advocates Égale Canada have lobbied Justice Minister Rob Nicholson to recognize a foreign civil union such as this as equivalent to a Canadian same-sex marriage in the eyes of the law.

    "Why is the federal government using public resources to diminish the effects of other countries' efforts to provide same-sex couples with equality?" wrote Égale's executive director Helen Kennedy in an open letter to Nicholson in October.

    "We have been very clear that we are not reopening the issue, but it is a legal dispute over definitions," Nicholson told the House of Commons last fall.

    What do you feel about this article?

     

    78 comments

    • Marco  •  4 months ago
      As long as the foreigners feed money into our economy, I don't really care if they marry and divorce every season
      • A Yahoo! User 4 months ago
        YOU hav to be a sick Alliance member to think this way.
      • Nancy 4 months ago
        Marco you have a good point. Everyone should mind their own business with regards to other peoples marriages. And money coming into the economy is a good thing. Niagra Falls is most likely glad that Canada marries same sex couples as it increases the number of people coming to the city each year.
      • stevenp 4 months ago
        are you kidding me !!.. in the name of the economy and money... when's this world going to stop ticking on money. Why not have Niagara falls have ceremonies for polygamy 50 person weddings as well.

        So yeah for the private hotels and Mcdonalds in Niagara falls but my tax dollars are now being spent to legally battle this mess of marrying people from other countries where the marriage will be null and void, Why are we doing this when it can then have legal and public tax dollars implication to the public citizen of Canada.
    • Havinmysay  •  Edmonton, Alberta  •  4 months ago
      may be legal here to marry if your gay but .. not Canadas fault if its not legal in your home country , get your home country to change its laws !!
      • mike 4 months ago
        just cause canadas laws are screwed up , dont ask other countries to follow our bad example
      • twobees 4 months ago
        Just cause Mike is homophobic don't let anyone think he's an average Canadian
    • doug  •  Port Coquitlam, British Columbia  •  4 months ago
      This is stupid. The non-canadian couple want a divorce, the Can govt lawyer says "come to think it-we don't consider you married."
      Case closed.

      The whole thing is stupid - why get married in Canada if the jurisdiction where you live wont recognize it?. If a same sex couple gets married in Canada, they now have a variety of marital rights (inheritance, children, marital assets etc) while in Canada and I guess in places where they recognized a Canadian marriage. But if you are not going to live here, what is the point?

      A government marriage is about legal rights. The sanctity of your union is between the couple, their community and their god.
    • Kathyrn  •  4 months ago
      for better, for worse, in sickness, and in health for as long as you both shall live, sure takes on a whole new meaning... there are a few mottos i live by and two come to mind: be carefull what you wish for, and equality is not all it's cracked up to be...
    • stevenp  •  Vancouver, British Columbia  •  4 months ago
      yawn... so let me understand this. Gay couples come to Canada to get married because their country does not recognize gay marriage where they reside. Then leave Canada and realize they don't want to be together and seek divorce. If the marriage is only recognized in Canada why do it to begin with ? why do it ?. Now Canada is getting sued by the couple. Jeez and now Canada is having to pay who knows how much to deal with this because it's Canada's fault. It's your fault for getting married to begin with. Just separate and move on. Do yourself a favour and don't get married again in this old traditional nonsense that makes you "feel" good. It's just paper and causes more problem than it's worth.

      Maybe Canada should only allow marriages for permanent residency only. If you want a marriage ceremony to feel special have a ceremony in your backyard, write up a certificate on your computer, print it up and hang it on the wall as it will be as valid as Canada's in your home country where the marriage is not legal ?...

      I would spend your time and money on questioning why you got married to begin with. Battling a government will waste more of your precious time on this planet just like the whole process you went through to get married.

      Much better things to do with your time than to conform to a bullocks tradition on having a piece of paper.

      Love what is in front of you right now and get focused on other subjects of this world like war, environment and starving populations.
      • A Yahoo! User 4 months ago
        you def have valid points, i agree with all cept marriage between one man and one woman is sacred before God. Not a piece of paper, I am truly been blessed with an amazing husband, had a gorgeous wedding 24 years ago, and have 4 kids a one grandchild. I am not judging gay people, this is between them and their God..not me. But you are correct about the "childish mentality to fight the man", marriage should have been left alone, we have such bigger problems in our world.
    • A Yahoo User  •  Calgary, Alberta  •  4 months ago
      Why are gay people not allowed to be as miserable and without affection like the REST of us?
    • Smile  •  Vancouver, British Columbia  •  4 months ago
      I assume that the same problem of divorcing could also occur with heterosexual couples that marry in Canada then move to another country before living in Canada for one year. Or a heterosexual couple, one Canadian, marrying in Canada and their partner that has not lived in Canada for one year. Then there are the heterosexual Canadian couples that choose to marry in Mexico, or the Caribbean.

      How many people think of these possibilities before marring in a country other than their own?
      It is understandable that the couple cannot divorce in a country that doesn't recognize the marriage.

      I would like to know if this homosexual couple were instead a heterosexual couple, would they have the same difficulty in getting a divorce?

      I think Canada should eliminate the living in Canada for one year policy as that seems to be the issue here.
    • Spring has sprung  •  Calgary, Alberta  •  4 months ago
      Good to see Harper is sticking to core values. It is not up to Canada to solve your home countries legal terms on what is a marriage or isn't. Keep these opportunist out of Canada.
      • Privateer 4 months ago
        Thank you..
      • A Yahoo! User 4 months ago
        I guess if hatred, prejudice and intolerance are your core values --- rock on.
      • steve 4 months ago
        If Harper stuck to his core values, gay marriage and abortion would both be illegal in Canada. He has publicly said that he doesn't personally believe in either. I respect him because he realizes that his values are different from that of the public and attempts to do things for the good of the nation, and not because it coincides with his personal beliefs.
    • booga  •  Ajax, Ontario  •  4 months ago
      I notice in this article the words marriage and legal are used in the same sentence. The partner ship between two people should be a legal agreement and a ceremony between two people who wish to attach a religious aspect to their partnership should be a marriage.
    • Question BS  •  4 months ago
      They can get divorced. All they have to do is come and live in Canada for one year. We should not change any law of any kind to accomodate foreigners. They shoud have to live here to enjoy our rights and advantages. Period.
      • mitch 4 months ago
        Foreigners? where are u from or your parents or grandparents? what an asnine statement
      • Question BS 4 months ago
        If you don't live in Canada, you are a foreigner here. A little too simple for you to understand?
    • me  •  4 months ago
      yeah the law here in canada. not elsewhere. so people who want to marry as a gay/lesbian couple, either live here to divorce or they suffer through this thing called marriage that they fought so hard for.
    • Galen  •  Vancouver, British Columbia  •  4 months ago
      I'm pretty tired of being lambasted with a neo-Christian definition of marriage as the acceptable norm when marriage is one form or another has been around for thousands of years even before Christian definition and proclamation. Almost every society in history has had marriage or matrimonial agreements in one form or another and their definitions of such has been as varied as the cultures. Even the Christian definition has been altered over the centuries to conform to demographic norms and church edict. To think that "your" religion owns the rights on marriage is both ignorant and misleading. Spewing hate in these comment section is very un-Christ-like.
    • Michel  •  4 months ago
      Gentlemen before you get upset...same-sex marriage is NOT like heterosexual marriage, meaning it is not recognized worldwide due to the fact that MANY countries and jurisdictions around the world do not recognize gay marriage due to religious, cultural reasons etc...

      and Canada cannot legally impose its laws on a foreign jurisdiction, that would be a VIOLATION of sovereignty.....
    • AL  •  Burlington, Ontario  •  4 months ago
      harper wanted the un security seat but the world did not want an american puppet harper in the un security security seat doing american business.
    • AL  •  Burlington, Ontario  •  4 months ago
      harper reformers causing trouble again trying to force canadians and the world into their right wing religion,CONTROL.
    • TJ  •  Georgina, Ontario  •  4 months ago
      So let's see if I have this straight....Canada recognizes gay marriages...Other countires don't...If you want a divorce, and your country does not recognize your marriage, and won't give you a divorce, somehow this is Canada's fault?...Perhaps Jean Cretin should have written the law better...Now they are trying to lay this at the foot of Harper...If he does something, it's not enough...If he does nothing , he's anti-gay...Somehow, somewhere, I'm pretty sure this is all Mike Harris's fault...Just ask any Lieberal, like Trudeau...:)
    • CUTHBERTSON  •  Greater Sudbury, Ontario  •  4 months ago
      if you get married in canada, and then live in florida, where your marriage is not recognized, i dont see a problem. you are not even married in florida's system, so why do you need a divorce there? Canadian lawyers will be happy to help you win a divorce,but just as in any country, it will be expensive and devastating. Getting married is great, but our society is designed to protect both partners ,as it should be.Even in common law separations, the piper must be paid, and justice served as fairly as possible.Marriage is probably our most important contract, and religion and law join together so that if anyone thinks marriage is a joke, think again.
    • YETI  •  Jakarta, Indonesia  •  4 months ago
      More crap that tax payers have to deal with. I don't care if man maries man, but if we have certain laws regarding divorce, we should not be then sued by people who are not Canadians.Who is this DUMB#$%$ lawyer?
    • big  •  4 months ago
      If some people wish to think marriage is a sacred vow etc. that is their business. For many, marriage is a contract between 2 people and nothing to do with god. The contract was made in Canada, it should be put aside in Canada.
    • scott  •  4 months ago
      funny how the non christians usually actually know more about the real origins of religions.
      when you know the actual history, you don't buy into the "stories" as much.
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