Netflix's Outlast just introduced the biggest villains in reality TV history
Warning: This article contains spoilers for the first season of Netflix's Outlast.
Netflix just unleashed what might just the most brutal reality competition series ever in Outlast. It works like this: 16 people are dropped off in the Alaskan wilderness and divided into four teams called Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta. Instead of voting contestants out one-by-one, players win simply by outlasting the competition. The only rule is that you can't survive individually, you have to be part of a team. Once a player can no longer hack it, they fire a flare gun to let everyone know they're quitting the game. The last remaining team to continue living off the land in truly miserable conditions with meager supplies wins the million-dollar prize.
That was the idea, at least, but what happened along the way shocked even the producers of the show. On day 16, the Alpha team decided that instead of sitting around and waiting to outlast the competition, they would instead sabotage another team's camp to push them to quit. One of the players, Justin Court, rafted over to Delta and stole their sleeping bags, meaning the two remaining players there, Dawn Nelson and Joel Hungate, had to risk hypothermia by sleeping outdoors in sub-freezing temperatures without their sleeping bags.
Netflix Amber Asay, Jill Ashock, and Justin Court on 'Outlast'
Typically, reality TV players become villains by lying to an alliance partner or bad-mouthing a competitor, but the actions by Alpha on Outlast were arguably the most despicable ever in that they actually put two people's lives in danger. Dawn and Joel (who eventually did quit as a result) were so irate about the move that they not only ruined Justin's raft in retaliation — forcing him to swim back in freezing water — but they also raided the producer's camera camp to watch back footage and identify the culprit.
However, Alpha was not done with their descent into full villainy and had one more shocking display up their sleeves. When Javier Colon, the one remaining Bravo member, attempted to join forces with Delta, Alpha's Jill Ashock and Amber Asay ran over to ransack Javier's shelter. When Javier hustled back up from the shore to protect it, Amber went down to the water to demolish his raft, which culminated with her calling him a "weak ass motherf---er."
Not surprisingly, Alpha eventually turned on themselves, with Justin defecting over to the Charlie team. However, when the players on Charlie learned that Justin had destroyed his former team's tarp on the way out, they rescinded their invitation, forcing him out of the game.
Eventually, on day 36, the remaining players on Charlie and Alpha took part in a final challenge hike to determine the winner. Charlie made it to the million dollars first, leaving Alpha with the title of reality TV's biggest villains.
We caught up with executive producer Grant Kahler, who reveals the producers were just as surprised as viewers by Alpha's behavior, and explains how the team pulled off the sleeping bag heist without any of their knowledge.
Netflix Amber Asay, Jill Ashock, and Justin Court on 'Outlast'
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: When you envisioned this show and played it out in your head, did you ever anticipate someone stealing another team's sleeping bags, which people need out there to stay alive?
GRANT KAHLER: The short answer is no, I didn't. I certainly knew that the show was going to be about the social dynamic, about the push and pull between loyalty and self-preservation and greed and all of these things that will come up in a group setting. No question, I knew about that. I even remember in my original deck, I actually had a slide that said, "Beg, borrow, and steal" — like, how are people going to go about this? Will the ugly side of human nature grab a hold of them and will they use dirty tactics? Or will they work together to get through this? It was obviously the former.
But no, I did not expect this. We made the rules very simple so that people weren't restrained, and we let things unfold as they did. We had a very simple, somewhat innocent format figured out with a backbone of some very basic challenges that are in the show. Otherwise, we really wanted to see what role the group dynamic was going to play in people's success or survival.
I've covered a lot of reality TV, and, considering the stakes, this has to be one of the most villainous acts in the history of reality TV. It's not just lying to or backstabbing an alliance partner and voting them out. This is a whole different level.
It is. They were trying to freeze or starve each other out, which is pretty hardcore.
What was the talk like between producers as this was happening? Was there any discussion about stopping this or allowing it play out?
I think there was a real turning point when those sleeping bags were stolen, and then the whole thing kind of falls apart for a few weeks. That actually happened while myself and most camera operators had the day off, so they had kind of schemed behind the scenes without telling us so that there would be less of a production footprint out there and they would have better mobility.
Obviously, it's hard to sneak around if you have camera operators around that stuff, right? So they didn't talk to us about it. We weren't prepared for it. In fact, I wasn't even there. I was 10 miles away scouting a location for something we ended up not doing. There's no cell phone service out there. I was actually way out of range for our walkies. So I was with a safety guy on a boat. I got back into range and I just found this all out completely out of the blue. I was just like, "Holy s---!"
We went to the camps and saw what was going on. My camera operators that were out there, they just followed it. No one was prepared for it, because we cycle crew so that people do have some time off. We had planned a slow day, and I showed up to that happening and then the gloves were off and people were like, "Alright, if this is how we're doing it, we're not going to let these people run through the game board like this. It's on."
Netflix Justin Court on 'Outlast'
It's interesting you say that was a slower day and you didn't have as many camera people there. Tell me if that sort of plays into when we see Delta's decision to raid your camera camp to find out the culprit, which you include on the show, and how that all transpired.
The people that were always on location were safety guys. Obviously, people were constantly hypothermic and there was a threat of bears and all of that, so you needed that presence. But the young woman that captured all of this was an assistant camera operator, and she picked up a camera and filmed almost the whole thing herself. She had zero direction from myself or from other producers, because we weren't prepared for it. And she just covered it. By the time I showed up, that had all taken place and we went to the different camps to talk to people and make sure everyone was okay. We knew that Delta camp was then going to have to sleep in 30-degree weather without any covers, and that was going to be extremely difficult.
How did your medical team monitor Delta team throughout the night with no sleeping bags?
We had to keep on them pretty closely. There was a morning or two that we were going to have to medically drop people. Whether it was the right decision or not, we didn't want to change the way it happened. We didn't want to hit the rewind button and give them their stuff back. We kept the rules vague for a reason because we were there to test them, and I thought it would do a disservice to the show to unwind all of that. I didn't tell Justin he couldn't do that, I guess is what I'm saying.
What did you make of Jill and Amber's behavior when they went to go ransack Javier's camp and then ruined his raft, which culminated with Amber calling him a "weak ass motherf---er"?
It was shocking, for sure. No question, it was shocking. That was actually one of the times when production had to step in and separate people: "Go to your rooms." We were afraid. People were so angry and so heated that we had to, for safety's sake, make sure that everyone just kind of [slowed] down [so] we could reassess what was going on.
When you're that cold and that hungry, you're really stripped down to your core — especially when you're nearing the finish line and half of the game board's gone and victory is in sight. They took it on themselves to help clear out the game board rather than sitting around and eating mussels and waiting for people to quit.
You know, there's really two options. They're asking me behind the scenes, "When is this going to end?" And I have no idea! I was like, "I'll sit here for a year if you want. Doesn't bother me!" I think all of the players took it upon themselves to use strategy and mental warfare to try and win this game rather than just outlasting their opponents.
Netflix Amber Asay and Jill Ashock on 'Outlast'
You had players who were victims of sabotage complain that this wasn't the game they signed up to play. What do you say to them in terms of what they thought they were getting themselves into and what ended up happening?
Not a lot. [Laughs] I said, "I didn't expect it either." But, as much as we didn't expect it, we did keep the rules vague because we wanted to see what would happen. I'm not some completely innocent bystander here. It would've been very easy to make rules to avoid things like stealing from each other or burning down your shelter, waving knives at whatever... but as long as someone didn't feel like they were going to be physically threatened, I was okay with it. As long as everyone was safe.
I always thought of this show when we were pitching it as like the movie Alive where the flight went down in the Andes. It's a day-to-day struggle to eat and to drink and to stay alive, but also, like, dealing with all of these different people.
If your plane goes down, and the guy next to you is a really great fisherman, that's great. But what if he's a total a--hole? That changes how you're going to get through that experience. This show is what happens in that scenario. These people had never met each other. They hardly even saw each other during pre-production. They didn't know each other's names. We kept them apart so they knew nothing going into it.
Did your pre-season predictions in terms of who you thought would do well match up to what happened?
This show is so hardcore and the show doesn't do justice to how awful and wet and cold it was. We have people that grew up off the grid, or are hunters and fishermen, or hiked the Appalachian Trail, or climbed mountains. But you get out there and you try and make it through a night or two where it just won't stop raining and it's 30 degrees — it's hard for anyone. We definitely had people that quit within a few days that I thought would've made it to the end just because they talked such a big game before they got out there. And then some of the more timid people made it very far, if not to the end.
Netflix Javier Colon on 'Outlast'
The Charlie team asked Justin to leave Alpha and join them. He accepted, but when he admitted to ruining Alpha's tarp they didn't want him anymore. Can a team force one of their own players out like that? Could Justin, by the rules, have made a case to stay with the team? How would that have worked?
They were always allowed to get rid of someone. The only real rule was that you had to finish with the team. So, in that scenario, it was interesting because someone else had to accept him. You can't just disappear to a corner with a tarp and try and wait it out. He had created enemies around the game board and then if someone else doesn't accept you or someone says, "You're not part of this team anymore," you need a place to go. And he just didn't have anywhere to go.
How long do you think the Charlie and Alpha teams could have stayed out there had it not been settled by the final challenge?
Gosh, it just depends. I mean, they had pretty decent shelters going at that point, so they were warm. That's a huge thing. Could someone have gotten a deer and scored a bunch more fish and stayed out there for another couple months? It's definitely possible.
At a certain point, it's not even about survival, it's just a mental game. How long can you put yourself through it? From what you saw on the show, people certainly were falling apart. So, even if they were fed, I don't know that it would've lasted much longer because people were just worn out and done mentally.
Netflix Nick Radner, Seth Lueker, and Paul Preece on 'Outlast'
How close were the Charlie and Alpha teams at the end?
They both stumbled a fair amount getting out there. It was pretty close. We were pretty confident that Charlie would win just because we were obviously tracking them by GPS and had cameras with them so we knew where everyone was. And once Charlie got past crossing all of these rivers, they were certainly ahead because they hadn't taken any wrong turns. They slowed down, just because physically they were so exhausted [from] walking through those frozen rivers, and that's after being cold and tired and wet and hungry for a long time. It really took it out of them. They sat down a few times, just to rest because they didn't know if they could continue, but never for quite long enough so that Alpha could catch up.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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